View source for English Wikipedia @ Freddythechick:Articles for deletion/CSE HTML Validator

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.''
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The result was    '''keep'''. [[User:Nakon|<span style="color:#C50;">'''Nakon'''</span>]] 02:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
===[[CSE HTML Validator]]===

:{{la|CSE HTML Validator}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CSE HTML Validator|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2015 March 20#{{anchorencode:CSE HTML Validator}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/CSE_HTML_Validator Stats]</span>)
:({{Find sources AFD|CSE HTML Validator}})
<s>No evidence of notability</s>, most edits to the article are by the person who wrote the software. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 17:38, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Business|list of Business-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 19:13, 20 March 2015 (UTC)</small>
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Software|list of Software-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 19:13, 20 March 2015 (UTC)</small>

*<s>'''Delete.'''  Lacks reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by [[WP:GNG]].  Only two of the sources offered even discuss this product and both of them are [[WP:PRIMARY]].  The rest of citations discuss other software products this one is claimed to be compatible with.  Googling turned up nothing useful.  [[User:Msnicki|Msnicki]] ([[User talk:Msnicki|talk]]) 20:41, 20 March 2015 (UTC)</s>

*'''Keep.''' I'm the developer of CSE HTML Validator. It's a software program that has been around since early 1997 (check the whois on its domain name htmlvalidator.com) and has thousands of customers. Other software products have integrated support for it, as listed in the article. It's also mentioned in several web development books sold on Amazon.com by major publishers. Recommend keeping it. [[User:AWiersch|AWiersch]] ([[User talk:AWiersch|talk]]) 21:19, 20 March 2015 (UTC)... '''ALSO:''' A search for "HTML validator software" on Google lists CSE HTML Validator's website in the #1 spot, and the next 3 sites listed (spots 2-4) are also related to CSE HTML Validator. It's also #1 on bing.com for the same search. [[User:AWiersch|AWiersch]] ([[User talk:AWiersch|talk]]) 12:05, 21 March 2015 (UTC) <small>— '''Note to closing admin''': [[User:AWiersch|AWiersch]] ([[User talk:AWiersch|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AWiersch|contribs]]) appears to have a [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest|close connection]] with the subject of the article being discussed. </small>


:*See [[Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Google test]]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 14:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

::*That says a search can be useful. I'm not simply talking about the number of hits. I'm talking about the ''quality'', not quantity. The software is the top hit for the search I mentioned and Google is very particular about giving results that people want. [[User:AWiersch|AWiersch]] ([[User talk:AWiersch|talk]]) 13:39, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

*<s>''Keep''</s>, after some minutes of despamming the article isn't too bad anymore. &ndash;[[User:Be..anyone|Be..anyone]] ([[User talk:Be..anyone|talk]]) 15:38, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

:*The quality ''is'' improved, but it still lacks the independent and reliable secondary sources needed to establish notability as required by our policy at [[WP:GNG]]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:04, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

:::Updated, I found only [https://www.emeditor.com/files/htmlvalidator701-zip/ one] reference on the listed pages apart from self-published integration plugins. I didn't try hard, just quick scans for "valid" on pages with features of the listed 3rd party products, ignoring one case where I ended up on the CSE HTML validator forum. &ndash;[[User:Be..anyone|Be..anyone]] ([[User talk:Be..anyone|talk]]) 16:36, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

::::Albert Wiersch has done an outstanding job in two areas:
::::[1] Search engine optimization and 
::::[2] Working with other product vendors to add HTML validation to their products by using his product as a module (which also speaks well of his coding skills -- it's ''hard'' to be compatible with multiple products written by multiple vendors).
::::What his product is lacking -- and what is required by our [[Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline]] -- is significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 17:20, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

:::::Searching for '''CSE HTML Validator''' at https://books.google.com shows that it has been noted (hence it is notable) in several books by major publishers. [[User:AWiersch|AWiersch]] ([[User talk:AWiersch|talk]]) 16:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

::::::Good, please add one or two where you can see that they really discuss the software. Completely unplanned while doing something else I stumbled over https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#acknowledgments - but that's about your notability&nbsp;;-) &ndash;[[User:Be..anyone|Be..anyone]] ([[User talk:Be..anyone|talk]]) 17:01, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

:::::::I'm not sure what you mean by "really" discuss the software, but here are some that do more than just list or mention the software (that is, it talks a little about it or gives instructions on how to use it): https://books.google.com/books?id=j84aAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT464&dq=CSE+HTML+Validator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZiYQVZm6FIe1ggTNvoKYBA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw https://books.google.com/books?id=UNdGyEGZ1SkC&pg=PA286&dq=CSE+HTML+Validator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZiYQVZm6FIe1ggTNvoKYBA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA https://books.google.com/books?id=2c-tF6bzaKcC&pg=PA490&dq=CSE+HTML+Validator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZiYQVZm6FIe1ggTNvoKYBA&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBQ https://books.google.com/books?id=ZDBduz1krlIC&pg=PA118&dq=CSE+HTML+Validator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZiYQVZm6FIe1ggTNvoKYBA&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCQ Here's a recent YouTube video made by someone else (Andy Williams): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2GjmsN5Uoc [[User:AWiersch|AWiersch]] ([[User talk:AWiersch|talk]]) 14:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
::::::Yes, "more than just list" sounds good. My own google scholar searches to show the notability of something where I was sure that it should be notable often ended on obscure papers mentioning the term once in a general intro, with a reference later, and talking about something completely different in their main sections.&nbsp;:-( &ndash;[[User:Be..anyone|Be..anyone]] ([[User talk:Be..anyone|talk]]) 16:27, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

*'''Keep.'''  Okay, I'm satisfied by the ''[https://books.google.com/books?id=j84aAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT464&dq=CSE+HTML+Validator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZiYQVZm6FIe1ggTNvoKYBA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=CSE%20HTML%20Validator&f=false WordPress 3 Search Engine Optimization]'' and ''[https://books.google.com/books?id=UNdGyEGZ1SkC&pg=PA286&dq=CSE+HTML+Validator&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZiYQVZm6FIe1ggTNvoKYBA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=CSE%20HTML%20Validator&f=false HTML in 10 Simple Steps or Less]'' sources.  [[WP:GNG]] requires only that multiple reliable independent secondary sources exist, not that they must be cited in the article (which these aren't).  This establishes notability, which is pretty much all we consider at AfD.  Everything else is content, for discussion somewhere else.  [[User:Msnicki|Msnicki]] ([[User talk:Msnicki|talk]]) 18:16, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

*'''Keep.''' The WordPress 3 Search Engine Optimization ref meets GNG, in my opinion. Note that I am !voting to keep, not withdrawing my nomination. I have never liked the fact that whoever files has a one-person veto and prefer that AFDs be closed normally. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 19:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>