English Wikipedia @ Freddythechick:Articles for deletion/Audicom (PC audio cards)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. If anyone still needs info for merging into Audicom, come on by my talk page & I'll restore the article into userspace. — Scientizzle 16:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Audicom (PC audio cards)

Audicom (PC audio cards) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

The purpose of the page is for company's promotional purposes only and it violates WP:SPAM, WP:NOT policy. In addition User:SLedesma violates WP:COI (see: [1]) and appears to be acting as a meat puppet for confirmed sock puppeteer OscarJuan] owner of www.solidynepro.com, external link which violates WP:NOT and WP guidelines WP:Notability (web), WP:RS and WP:ELNO (see:[2] Jrod2 (talk) 18:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy Merge Per argument above. This is a legitimate hardware product that should be merged to its software, the Audicom article.Jrod2 (talk)
  • Delete – I would have no problem with an article based on the company, in that there is enough information to make a case for notability. However, an article on the particular product the company makes, where I could find no information other that the company website, is called SPAM. ShoesssS Talk 19:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedy Delete G11 (spam). So tagged. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 00:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
    • I've declined the G11 speedy - WP:COI does not spam make (in fact, the guideline states that editing in a situation where you have a conflict of interest is strongly discouraged rather than outright prohibited), and the language of the article on its own is generally encyclopedic in nature. While I'm curious to see if there are any substantial Spanish-language sources out there, right now I'm going to go with delete for lack of notability per WP:PRODUCT. --jonny-mt 05:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep to proceed with merge as the article was tagged prior to the nomination. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 20:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment If you want to be technical about it, I Proded the article first (see: [3]) an hour later, a user deleted the Prod for Merge, so I tagged it for AfD minutes later. We don't use this criteria to vote "Keep" or "Delete". A user can tag to merge something that lacks of verifiability. That still doesn't mean it is an article that meets policy. Jrod2 (talk) 03:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete – There is already an article about Audicom. I don't see the need for a specific article about the audio cards from it. If some this has any interest, it should be mentionned within the main Audicom article.--Gabriel Bouvigne (talk) 11:17, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi!:
My name is Sebastian Ledesma, I am the initial author of the article in Wikipedia about Audicom. I've created it 2 years ago because I considered relevant information. I know that I work in the company that created the Audicom, nevertheless I've tried to be as neutral as possible. I did it on my spare time, the company didn't paid me to do it, and they they are not paying now (Saturday at 4 a.m.!).</ br>

About the ECAM: it was created from zero. Without copying anyone. Bonello recognizes that the theoretical principles of masking were know but that was considered a curiosity behavior of human ear. His novel idea was to use those principles to discard information and so 'cheat' the ear. Bonello knew that was possible, so they started the project of creating an algorithm, hardware cards and the application for that (ok, the hard work they did their engineers, but based on Bonello's idea).

About Audicom cards: I didn't tried to do SPAM. These cards are obsolete today. So I do not expect customers to come running to buy, nor I'am inducing its purchase, and on the other hand, the cards already ceased to be manufactured (so the company could not sell them). I was looking to documentate what was done. It wasn't the first audio card, I credit this (in my opinion) to Creative, who in turn copied the design of the sound generator card from Adlib, and added an option to play in 8-bit samples (but forgot put a filter anti-aliasing! so that sound was horrible!). Solidyne but if it was the first company that did so in Latin America (and one of the first in the world), from scratch and without copying the design of other manufacturers of audio cards (because there wasn't any to copy), and also with the ability to compress and decompress audio in real time and based on a psychoacoustics codec (primitive when compared with existing AAC, WMA and others, but worked for that time). It took time to do it, there wasn't Google to search for information, there wasn't software to simulate circuits lika Tina, there was'nt software to make PCBs (a technical cartoonist did it with technical pens Rotring), there wasn't IDEs (such as RAD Studio CodeGear) to make the software, but they finally achieved it! The card was ready in 1988, and the product in 1989. The company was so sure that what they had invested in the journey of 12000 km to the NAB next year to show what they had done. </ Br>

About Audicom: it was a real novelty by that time. It created the concept of broadcast from a PC. Nowadays such software is becoming a 'commodity' (there are even some free), much of them pretty similar (have a 'file manager', a 'live assist', a 'playlist' and so on, some even unconsciously copied the cursor red to indicate the title in play and the cursor green to indicate the next item!). Solidyne does not control that market, and I do not see that it will gain any market share due to hard competition. I didn't tried to do SPAM about it, if you look the domain [www.audicom.com] belongs to a Finnish firm with which we have no relationship. I consider worthy to include in wikipedia as others products as VisiCalc do it. The relevance of the product that it changed the market, large manufacturers of cartridges and tapes (like Shure) left market by the appearance of products like-alike the Audicom (or better).

About Solidyne: I've included the name because it is a fact, I didn't try advertise saying come and buy. Neither I've created an article in Wikipedia about Solidyne, given that as work on it could be interpreted as advertising. I've added the link to the official site for Solidyne because I respected the style of others articles on Wikipedia (such as Costa Cruises, Dolby, etc.). Besides there is no direct association between the name of the company and its web site (www.solidyne.com points to a U.S. manufacturer of industrial equipment).

About Bonello: He is an Electronic Engineering, graduated at the University of Buenos Aires. One of the most prestigious universities in Latin America (4 of 5 Nobels prizes that Argentina have received attended at that university ). Besides, he is professor at that university (technically speaking is the Chief of professors). He is also member of the Audio_Engineering_Society, has published several technical papers on it, and has been awarded by the same community [4]. Additionally has dictated several conferences in various countries around the world and has published several books on acoustic all existed before Wikipedia, so he didn't wrote those books just to appear in it. Bonello has his name (and also his money!), at least I'm young and good looking! :P.

About me: In my original edition I did not include my name (I did not seem appropriate). I laughed when he saw my name included. I was part of the development of Audicom at the final part of the development for Windows. I'm not trying to figure in wikipedia and I don't will do any movement so my name is included. I didn't have oportunity to knew engineer Demaria, but I know the engineer Ricardo Sidoti and I can personally testify that he is a brilliant engineer (Bonello didn't use the adjective 'brilliant' on me :)). Sidoti was a student of him(and Bonello was very smart when he hired him) and also was university professor at the University of Buenos Aires. All the work that I posted on Wikipedia I do in my spare time (possibly I will continue tomorrow on exposing and correcting the article), Bonello is aware of this and I do not give any directive to put on (sometimes I had very strong discussions with him, but always for technical questions). I've tried to add more information as possible (I have still more things to do, like transcode from ECAM to MP3 audio so all can listen how was the sound of ECAM), sometimes it took me time because I'm not very familiarized to write in wikipedia (there isn't a better way to write that this edit box!?!?!) (and I have to do in my free time!).

About the Diario La Nacion: It is one of the most prestigious newspapers in Argentina. It has a conservative orientation, was founded by a former president of the country, has more than 100 years old and several recognized spanish writers (Jorge Luis Borges, José Martí, Manuel_Mujica_Laínez, José_Ortega_y_Gasset, Alfonso Reyes, Miguel_de_Unamuno among others) have participated over the years in their editions. Their editors are very strict and you can trust on them as a very reliable source (I dont expect that the result of a soccer match will gain the headlines just to hide the country's problems). We didn't pay for them for an article (we never will pay for moral reasons). I am also looking for other references (journals, photographs of the stand, etc.). That's why I've created the article at first time, so it's registered, with an archaeological nature of technological progress and not as a way to boost sales. I do not think that a person will buy an audio-processor just by a card that the company did make 20 years ago. Today, I see that in any comercial show that the attendees enter into a stand just for the pretty girls, free snacks or any product with many lights that call their attention.

On the other hand I think it is an obligation of moral wikipedia include knowledge. Thanks to it, now we know that what is the papiamento. Only 0.0047% of the world population speaks that language, and its has his place in Wikipedia. And we also know that Leon Scott invented the first sound recorder which he called phonautograph. For years this was attributed to Thomas Edison invention. Only very recently it was possible to decode his recordings. In the same way I wish to record what they did these people over 20 years ago, when I was playing with a C-64.
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Saludos! SLedesma (talk) 07:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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