English Wikipedia @ Freddythechick:Articles for deletion/Jamie Coots

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There's not quite a clear enough consensus that this person was noted only for one event, i.e., the manner of their death. Sandstein 08:16, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Jamie Coots

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Non-notable individual. Classic case of WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWS of a snake handler who died, surprise, surprise, from a snake bite. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 12:11, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Delete - sorry, but this IMO is a speedy.....--Stemoc (talk) 12:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I knew someone would slither by here soon (cue endless snake-related puns...) Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 12:25, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I was gonna write "ssssspeedy" but thought it would be a bit too much.. :P ..--Stemoc (talk) 12:30, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

No, wait! - this needs to be included in the oft-nominated but rarely unusual List of unusual deaths! It would fit perfectly. My only question is whether his television appearances and then the coverage relating to his death might get him past WP:BLP1E? He wasn't really notable in life, nothing to suggest his deaths changes that really. So I support deletion unless something more substantive is identified. Stalwart111 13:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think a snake handler being killed by a snake is that unusual! --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:11, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Fangs for that. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 15:13, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Are you an expert in religious snake-handling deaths? Do you agree or disagree with the claim in the Guardian that there have been 10 such deaths in the last century? Unscintillating (talk) 04:19, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Redirect to snake handling, where he's mentioned and his death is described. Seems a footnote in the fascinating history of snake handling; doesn't get beyond WP:NOTNEWS in his own right. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:11, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
The Case for CootsWP:BLP1E does not apply here because the subject is not living. The policy also applies only "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event." I submit that the National Geographic Channel is a reliable source and it covered Coots long before his death. Note also that his previous arrests for illegal snake possession received media coverage when they occurred (One example: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/feb/13/ky-pastor-wants-snakes-confiscated-in-tenn/) as did his role in the death of Melinda Brown in 1995 (Examples: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/serpent-handlers-fred-w-brown/1112630008?ean=9780895873521 and http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/2766921/). He also published an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal before he died, which gave him an additional level of national attention as a spokesman for snake handling. ThePhantomCopyEditor (talk) 15:32, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Coverage in a reality TV show doesn't guarantee notability. There are lots of reality TV characters who don't have Wikipedia articles and are only covered in the context of the show: e.g. the stars of Storage Wars, Hillbilly Handfishin', or Made in Chelsea. --Colapeninsula (talk) 16:52, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

True, but in addition to the reality show, Coots received widespread notoriety for: 1. His death. 2. His role in the death of Melinda Brown. 3. His various snake-related arrests. ThePhantomCopyEditor (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Delete The show doesn't even have an article. This is a snake handling preacher who died of a snakebite. This is not notable. If we were to cobra every single snake handling related death, Wikipedia's editors would never stop taipan. Other famed snakebite deaths with articles were people who had done something other than just get bitten: Cleopatra, or George Went Hensley, the founder of the Church of God with Signs Following. Anaconda this, the page should be deleted. And for the record, this post is not just for the puns: the page really should be deleted. Paris1127 (talk) 16:40, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Delete venomination, since there's no place to merge him into. This article bites! Although he made the news 'round here. — Wylie pedia 21:22, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Rattle be the day. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:04, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Keep I know of this story from hearing about it on the national news, so I won't be providing links. This guy was known about before the death. ABC evening news specifically mentioned that they had been following this preacher. The preceding coverage has made the death much more newsworthy, including I see in the article some international coverage. You might argue that the attention was not so focused at the time on this one participant, but this story shows that the lens of history does not have a constant focus. Unscintillating (talk) 01:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

"I know of this story from hearing about it on the national news" WP:NOTNEWS. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 07:58, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Have you ever removed any news sources from articles because Wikipedia is not news? Unscintillating (talk) 09:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Without checking all of my 328,000+ edits, I'd say yes. Why, have you? And good to see your bad-faith WP:POINTY edit was reverted too. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 14:16, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

wow, you two are Hisssterical

...--Stemoc (talk) 14:32, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Adder-boy. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 17:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

So you can't actually provide any examples of news sources removed from Wikipedia because Wikipedia is not news? Unscintillating (talk) 22:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes I can. Thanks for asking. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 09:26, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Keep A lot of you are making jokes about this just being a Darwin award story. However, snake handling is an interesting part of the history of Appalachian religious culture and fringe elements of Christianity. (Although I agree it sounds crazy). Coots had become a de facto face and spokesman for what remains of this tradition, long before his death. There are plenty of references to establish notability outside of his death stories and reality show.74.143.195.230 (talk) 14:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:48, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Neutral At present the article does not make it look like he is notable. However if what 74.143.195.230 says is true, and this person has lots of sources mentioning him outside the context of his death, I would support inclusion. One issue I have is "how big was his church?" Also, did anyone outside his congregation look to him as a religious leader?John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:54, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Keep I have found some better sources that focus more on him while he was alive. Here [1] is a book that might provide more information in the part I can't read. It is looking to me like John Wayne "Punkin" Brown, Jr., might be more notable even than this guy, and it is clear that deaths among pastors and members in churches that practice serpent handling are not notable in and of themselves, but this guy seems to be notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the other hand our article on Church of God with Signs Following, which is the loose body of snake-handling churches, says "Over sixty cases of death as the result of snakebites in religious worship services have been documented in the United States." This is in a movement that has between 1,000 and 5,000 adhearants, and between 40 and 100 congregations. Not all adhearents have ever directly participated in snake handling. There also seem to have been additional deaths that resulted from ingesting poison.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:58, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

do we really want to set a precedence? people die of snake bites every year.. this man was not famous, he was only made 'notable' by NatGeo and that was limited to certain parts of America, outside of USA, no one knows who he issss.. he is not Steve Irwin. if anything, his mention here should be enough..he most definitely DOES NOT deserve his very own article--Stemoc (talk) 01:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Delete, I'm afraid I don't have any good snake puns, but there is WP:ONEEVENT which this is. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 07:55, 1 March 2014 (UTC).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.